a Navy man, 1992   Mother-Margaret  10/26/2005 9:40 PM
 Conny served 81-87; Fell 05   Mother-Margaret  11/15/2005 9:40 AM
 Navy man 86-92   Mother-Margaret  2/26/2006 4:42 AM
 Army '93 - Similar health 2000   Mother-Margaret  2/28/2006 12:24 AM
 A Navy Man - Autoimmune Issue/s   Mother-Margaret  9/23/2006 3:44 AM


Navy Man, 1992


Conny served 81-87 Fell 2005


 Navy Man 86-92

Found on a soon to be deleted discussion forum

September 06, 2000

I have served in the navy from 86-92.  I was never deployed to the gulf but yet have similar problems that the one's who were I've gone to the VA hospital but all i get is the runaround. I've gone to regular doctors who have run blood test after blood test but found nothing that explains the symptoms that I am having I feel trap with these problems because they won't go away. I have applied social security, but I don't like it. 

I have had good jobs but had to give them up because of my illness that no one seems to find.  I have two little girls and my wife who seem to be coming down with similar problems .  My wife was also suppose to have a baby that we lost at 3 month into it. I am afraid to another one for fear that I might lose that one or it comes out deformed. 

I have had weird mood swings that I can't explain, all I wish for is that the doctors could give me something that would cure me so that I could live a normal life. So I ask for help from other veterans who are suffering from runaround that VA and our gov't has given.
god bless!


If we are going to find the cause of so many of our autoimmune issues and harm to military and housewife alike, we are going to have to take a look at how their harm is similar & look for the common denominator:  CFIDS fatigue!

I suspect 2-butoxyethanol overexposure through the decades is the culprit.  A more serious look at Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction or symptoms is most likely there, too ... if not directly,  as a birth defect from someone in the family

And we need to understand the strong second hand solvent exposure that 2-butoxyethanol has.

Margaret e-mail margaret.realhelp@gmail.com

Army 1993 - similar in 2000

My fiancÚ was not in the Gulf War - he enlisted in the Army in the spring of '93 - but he is questioning some of the "immunizations" he was given. About a year and a half ago, he began having these episodes that resembled being drunk. He would become emotional, irrational, his speech would be incoherent, he would lose his sense of balance, and his breath would become very sweet. Sometimes he would also vomit or pass out. These episodes would last for anywhere from 30 minutes to hours. At first we thought it was diabetes, but the tests his doctors ran came back negative for diabetes. His doctors told him to just keep a healthy diet, but that didn't help.

Then 6 months ago he started having diarrhea several times a day, which doctors attributed to a hyper-active gall bladder. He also started having these back spasms that would put him on the floor for hours. He also gets migraines periodically. A few weeks ago he passed out during one of the "drunk" episodes, and he actually had a seizure. Doctors are now looking at a neurological answer for his problems, which they are labeling as seizures. They say it may be from head trauma he experienced during a jump (he was in the 82nd Airborne div.). We are now wondering if it may be from an experimental "immunization" the govt. tested on Army personnel - I know none of you would put it past them! Does anyone else out there have these problems, too?

Julie Fandrich on August 22, 2000

My question, "What was he doing when the diarrhea started up? 

This is one symptom of a new exposure to 2-butoxyethanol, in particular.

Was there blood in urine?  2.5 days later was there an elevated 'retic ratio?'


A Navy Man - Autoimmune Issues

Is it really worth fighting the VA for Gulf War Syndrome? It seems to me they just want to identify you to ridicule you and deny you benefits. I served in the Navy from July 76 until Jul 96 when I finally retired with my full 20 as a Chief Fire Controlman FCC (SW). I went out after spending nine of my last 12 months of active duty on limited duty. In July of 1995 I had a doctor who had been after me to go on limited duty for about six months and after getting a complete a$$hole for an XO I took him up on his offer. At the time I was having problems with weakness in my left arm, (MRI's showed a herniated disc in my neck and a couple, out of many, nerve tests showed some pinching of a nerve) at the same time I was seeing a rheumatologist for joint/muscle aches, headaches and what they called DIMS ( Diminished ability to Induce and Maintain Sleep). Mind you I had been hiding the joint and muscle pain for years in fear of getting a medical retirement. During the course of the exams I was having the doctor was having a hard time locating reflexes in my left arm so he sent me to Bethesda to see a neuro surgeon so off my wife and I went. During the exam in Bethesda the doctor told me he was unable to get any reflexs anywhere in my body to react at all. He believed I had Multiple Sclerosis (MS) and should go back to my doctor in Mayport. I went back to FL and my Doctor did a spinal tap ( man talk about the mother of all head aches) and ruled out MS, in the mean time I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. I was sent to Charleston on 9 month TAD orders to be close to my family, went back to Florida for 3 months, finished out my 20 and retired, no retirement ceremony or party, no end of service award, no thank you for your service, no transition assistance program, no benefits briefing , nothing, just one day I wore a uniform and the next day I didn't.

After I retired I approached civilian life just like I did military I worked hard to be successful. But things were getting harder and harder. When I first got out I applied for benefits for my neck and I had bad knees as well as sinus surgery, knee surgery and a rebuilt ankle. I continued to work hard ( as a Realtor). Being a successful Realtor takes long hours, working 60+ hour weeks and never having a day off. You have to be there when your clients are ready, day night or afternoon, weekday or weekend. So please all of you appreciate what your Realtor does for you. Any way after a while the body aches became to much and I was not able to put in the hours I once was able to. The fatigue was getting to me and there began to be days that I just could not function. I asked fro an increase in my compensation fro fibromyalgia (which at the time was only 10%) and I began to go to Voc Rehab training because I knew I would not be able to continue the long hours Real Estate required to earn a living. In In Jan 2003 I became ill and was having severe pain when breathing, my doctors took some x-rays and decided I had pneumonia and treated me with 10 days of antibiotics, a follow up appointment showed no improvement, they then started another course of stronger antibiotics. Another follow up with no improvements. The x-ray showed a large amount of fluid on my left lung. My doctor took me aside and explained to me what was going on. He had consulted with another doctor and I was going to have to go into the hospital for some test to rule out TB and cancer. I went in, they drained 900ml off my left lung. Spent 10 days in hospital. Tets were neg for TB and cancer. Was out of hospital for 10 days when it all started to happen again. This time fluid was too thick to drain and I ended up with having my chest spread open and having lung surgery to remove the mess. I spent 4 days in ICU and 10 more days in hospital. I now have only about 50% lung capacity. Subsequent follow up with the consulting rheumatologist shows it was an autoimmune attack due to unspecified rheumatoid disease. I had a similar episode in 1985 but the doctor ( an internist) was never able to figure out what happened. I applied for benefits based on that and of course the VA denied my claim. They say there is no service connection and it is probably related to the fibromyalgia for which I already receive compensation. I asked my doctor to review my active duty service record which he did and he pointed out several things that were over looked and why my current illness was undiagnosed while on active duty, that there were signs of it going all the way back to 1979 and that it was completely separate from my fibromyalgia. I filled an appeal and have another C&P exam with the VA in a week. I am currently rated at 70% ( they dropped me from 80 to 70 because they said that even though I now have 2 more herniated discs in my neck and one more in my back my degenerative disc disease is getting better). I am hoping to finally get a 100% rating because due to my illness and the side effect of the meds I take I have been unable to work since May of 03. I now suffer from near constant muscle/joint pain, fatigue, depression, headaches ( that can last as long as a month at a time), have trouble sleeping, morning stiffness, and fogginess. I tried for Social Security ( on my own) with out knowing the system and was turned down. hey told me to go back to Real Estate. So much for the government you protected supporting you. I was too embarrassed to appeal. I guess I should try again.

How does all this tie into the Gulf War. I was over there aboard ship but I never figured I was effected by GWS. I was over there long after the peak of hostilities were over ( first half of 93). Of course we got an array of shots and pills prior to deployment but I don't know where my shot record is and there is nothing in my medical record. As a Fire Control man I worked on the Navy's Close In Weapons System (CIWS) which fired 20mm DU rounds. We fired the rounds all the time and of course had to clean the gun and police up the deck for the sabots and debris as well as daily exposure to the magazine. This of course meant exposure to solvents when cleaning the gun and its systems. Shipboard life naturally meant some exposure to pesticides because the corpsman would have to routinely spray for pests. How much if any of this can or has attributed to where I am today I don't know but is it worth going to the VA and having them poke and probe me even more then they have? Is it worth them trying to discredit what I have already fought so hard for? It seems to me the people who would have the most exposure were the ground troops involved in the actual ground war. Believe I could be wrong as I am as far from being a knowledge source as one can be. It just seems that the VA should be there to support the Veterans not to make their lives a nightmare. The worst part is is that it seems like no one cares. We are yesterdays garbage set out to the curb for collection and disposal. brokendown&old Jan, 2005

As a Fire Controlman I worked on the Navy's Close In Weapons Sysytem (CIWS) which fired 20mm DU rounds. We fired the rounds all the time and of course had to clean the gun and police up the deck for the sabots and debris as well as daily exposure to the magazine. This of course meant exposure to solvents when cleaning the gun and its systems. Shipboard life naturally meant some exposure to pesticides because the corpsman would have to routinely spray for pests.

My dad was also FCC in the Navy in WWII.

He, I believe, had this chemical exposure I'm concerned about. I think it is in bomb fumes that get in your eyes; also it is what guns are cleaned with, most likely. Based on his death at about age 62 (too young too die) and the changes in his personality/health ... and some minor birth defects me and my brother have ... I do believe that the syndrome X and diabetes that I showed up for me in recent years ...is a late to show up birth defect. Some thoughts on this here:
Why the epidemic of DIABETES in WWII nations?

For the muscle weakness you shared on ...
Could it be CIDP? In the advance or acute stage it is what Pres FDR had (goes by another name). He didn't have polio, but the acute (instead of chronic) version of CIDP

Why I think Pres FDR was exposed to bomb fumes of WWI when he was Assist Sect of the Navy & got as close to the front lines as they would let him. About that time the male tanks were brought into the war ... then in 1918 the 'Spanish flu" that killed millions. General Dynamics wants to test these old things in a new package & shoot them off beyond our town in Jan/Feb of 07. Scares me a lot

The autoimmune issue you relate is VERY significant!

I think the Presumptive list should be for all military from WWI to the present (excluding Agent Orange 'for sures')

Hawk asked about gulf war vet, Chad Pagel, of Indiana. Last I heard he was going in for tumor removal in his nasal passages 8-6-05. I have not heard from him. Since
he shared a few months prior that his liver & bone marrow was failing and they had him on mega drugs ... I'm concerned that he might not be alive. But I don't know that.

He has asked me to look through his medical records and that of his buddy who died about Christmas, 04. I believe they would both show the signs
of CFIDS - which would be a biormarker of 2-butoxyethanol poisoning